My jaw literally dropped when you reached the “clinically depressed” bit, so bravo on how well you structured this to create just that effect. And yes, I do feel seen.
The question to me is whether we code for the possibility of bad things happening *because* we’re depressed, or whether we’re depressed because we recognize the possibility of bad things happen and we can’t get other people to fucking listen to us.
Clinically depressed describes me to a tee. I have never sought treatment, I just see my condition as being part of the life of an introvert. I don't dislike my fellow beings, but their strong desire to conform no matter how silly or dangerous the deeds they deem necessary to adhere to strikes me as sadly unnecessary. It is that that I find depressing.
I love this article so much and can't thank you enough. Yes, I do feel seen! I've shared it with friends and family but most of them are too optimistic to be able to get anything out if it unfortunately. I'm a New Yorker and worked for a couple of months at Fuji Bank in the South Tower of the WTC on the 82nd floor. Interestingly enough, most of the people who left the South Tower did so because of the truck bomb on February 26, 1993 - at that time they were told to stay where they were and they obeyed, but later thought about it and realized how dangerous it was. So on 9/11, even at Fuji Bank, everyone except the head of Fuji Bank NYC left and walked down, even though they were announcing "stay where you are, everything is fine" on the loudspeaker. Their risk analysis had been changed by their prior experience. This brings me to the topic of hypervigilance. I know that many people who are clinically depressed also have hypervigilance (like myself), often caused by issues during childhood. I bet that almost all hypervigilant people assess risk much better than other people. Given the 9/11 WTC example, perhaps when non-hypervigilant people go through a major traumatic event they are gifted a bit of hypervigilance which can help them in future events, that is if they actually process it. Peer pressure also helped - there were enough people on the floor who said "remember what happened before? Let's leave now" so they were able to convince any doubters. Unfortunately right now most people are stuck in toxic positivity and aren't allowing themselves to learn the lessons of the current times in order to have better risk assessment. For the people who are, it's happening too slowly to prevent disaster on many fronts at this time (for example, people have to get long Covid and become disabled before they see that it's possible and that they're at risk). For those of us who are seeing clearly it is excruciating to watch which makes me appreciate even more your article and all your posts on Twitter - thank you!
Thank you for sharing this and your kind words. Yes, I think you're right that past experience is an important factor in activating vigilance. But we also know that trauma can be a numbing agent too, with people often desperate to forget
I love such writing.. this writing just bangs & barges on in .. .. a flooding, near drowning music visuals impressions impacts calmness zen .. facing nature
my point is that writings like this tell me that my own stuff ain’t abnormal.. new windows open
we need works like these.. like we need bellingcat .. lifeguards .. exemplars.. lighthouses .. kids
I saw the same stunning imagery as the author.. the irresistible force .. (in our case.. we ran for our lives / rogue wave within a ‘big set’
& we’d watched in blind disbelief trying to comprehend its significance.. then bolted .. screeching ‘run’ .. and it still almost had us..)
This was on some rock outcrops tween Ucluelet & Tofino.. 50 years ago .. or so
To see this.. in contemporary life was astonishing..
I know that exact video without even looking it up lol. There’s a demographic of people, especially in the global north, who simply won’t acknowledge that they could be in danger from “third world problems”.
Well explained. Yet some of us can see the risk adjust our behavior to the risk and also see the risk of overwhelming depression and adjust for that as well though admittedly that’s difficult
Thank you for this! The thing is I see myself as an optimist, just not in a do-nothing-and-everything-will-be-fine kind of way. For example, in the early days of the pandemic I was optimistic that the world would change... but this pretending nothing ever happened drives me to despair on a daily basis.
I try to educate my mother about the continuing Covid danger but even though she kind of gets it and masks in certain places, she just desperately wants it all to not be true and is also surrounded by people who minimize it. She told me recently that “ignorance is bliss”. She would rather risk Long Covid or worse in order to live without having to think of it most of the time.
I will say though, as a sangoma, that it might not be just unrealistic optimism... I’m beginning to thing it’s also despair and surrender. A cynical nihilism of sorts. We’re in the bad place.
I hadn’t considered this. That this attitude might reflect not arrogance but the opposite of arrogance, a surrender to what we perceive as inevitable and a sense that whatever we do won’t matter. Fatalism. What both extremes have in common is a level of certainty about the outcome: either “nothing bad can happen to me” or “no matter what I do I’m done for.”
The old man may have had walking difficulties and simply could not run. In which case, he simply accepted his fate and spent his last moments remembering his life, his family and loved ones, and hoped for the best.
Unfortunately, I think you missed the relationship between Voltaire's satire and optimism. It has little to do individual psychology. Voltaire is responding to Leibnitz' theo-philosophical Optimism that is underpinned by a particular theodicy.
My jaw literally dropped when you reached the “clinically depressed” bit, so bravo on how well you structured this to create just that effect. And yes, I do feel seen.
The question to me is whether we code for the possibility of bad things happening *because* we’re depressed, or whether we’re depressed because we recognize the possibility of bad things happen and we can’t get other people to fucking listen to us.
as I suggested to Evan Scrimshaw this AM
‘The Upside Of Down’ - Thomas Homer - Dixon - is a revelation - that keeps on giving ..
ps.. I have produced more Accredited CME - Continuing Medical Education with regard to The DSM 4 & 5
with various teams.. than anyone I know .. a few aside.. who I learned from on the Production side
The Healthcare exemplars were of course warriors on the path of ‘Best Practice’
Seeing the insult & propaganda deployed against our precious Healthcare Champions
energizes me like attacks upon our shared Environment.. or our children & fellow women & men
or whomever you discover or are discovering yourself to be..
Clinically depressed describes me to a tee. I have never sought treatment, I just see my condition as being part of the life of an introvert. I don't dislike my fellow beings, but their strong desire to conform no matter how silly or dangerous the deeds they deem necessary to adhere to strikes me as sadly unnecessary. It is that that I find depressing.
My reaction to, "We are wired to ignore the apocalypse.", was immediately, "not all of us"...
Then, exactly, I do feel seen, sigh, thank you Nate (and all the Cassandra's). 💙
I love this article so much and can't thank you enough. Yes, I do feel seen! I've shared it with friends and family but most of them are too optimistic to be able to get anything out if it unfortunately. I'm a New Yorker and worked for a couple of months at Fuji Bank in the South Tower of the WTC on the 82nd floor. Interestingly enough, most of the people who left the South Tower did so because of the truck bomb on February 26, 1993 - at that time they were told to stay where they were and they obeyed, but later thought about it and realized how dangerous it was. So on 9/11, even at Fuji Bank, everyone except the head of Fuji Bank NYC left and walked down, even though they were announcing "stay where you are, everything is fine" on the loudspeaker. Their risk analysis had been changed by their prior experience. This brings me to the topic of hypervigilance. I know that many people who are clinically depressed also have hypervigilance (like myself), often caused by issues during childhood. I bet that almost all hypervigilant people assess risk much better than other people. Given the 9/11 WTC example, perhaps when non-hypervigilant people go through a major traumatic event they are gifted a bit of hypervigilance which can help them in future events, that is if they actually process it. Peer pressure also helped - there were enough people on the floor who said "remember what happened before? Let's leave now" so they were able to convince any doubters. Unfortunately right now most people are stuck in toxic positivity and aren't allowing themselves to learn the lessons of the current times in order to have better risk assessment. For the people who are, it's happening too slowly to prevent disaster on many fronts at this time (for example, people have to get long Covid and become disabled before they see that it's possible and that they're at risk). For those of us who are seeing clearly it is excruciating to watch which makes me appreciate even more your article and all your posts on Twitter - thank you!
Thank you for sharing this and your kind words. Yes, I think you're right that past experience is an important factor in activating vigilance. But we also know that trauma can be a numbing agent too, with people often desperate to forget
So true and great point.
I love such writing.. this writing just bangs & barges on in .. .. a flooding, near drowning music visuals impressions impacts calmness zen .. facing nature
my point is that writings like this tell me that my own stuff ain’t abnormal.. new windows open
we need works like these.. like we need bellingcat .. lifeguards .. exemplars.. lighthouses .. kids
I saw the same stunning imagery as the author.. the irresistible force .. (in our case.. we ran for our lives / rogue wave within a ‘big set’
& we’d watched in blind disbelief trying to comprehend its significance.. then bolted .. screeching ‘run’ .. and it still almost had us..)
This was on some rock outcrops tween Ucluelet & Tofino.. 50 years ago .. or so
To see this.. in contemporary life was astonishing..
Thank you for another banger. You are one of my favourite writers in this era of madness.
That's very kind, thank you
I know that exact video without even looking it up lol. There’s a demographic of people, especially in the global north, who simply won’t acknowledge that they could be in danger from “third world problems”.
You've nailed it. Thanks for showing me that I'm not alone.
Well explained. Yet some of us can see the risk adjust our behavior to the risk and also see the risk of overwhelming depression and adjust for that as well though admittedly that’s difficult
I had a therapist who told me this once and I’ve felt so much friendship with my depression since then that it doesn’t overwhelm me.
Thank you for this! The thing is I see myself as an optimist, just not in a do-nothing-and-everything-will-be-fine kind of way. For example, in the early days of the pandemic I was optimistic that the world would change... but this pretending nothing ever happened drives me to despair on a daily basis.
I have also read that the depressed do not exhibit Dunning-Kreuger as much as the neurotypical.
I try to educate my mother about the continuing Covid danger but even though she kind of gets it and masks in certain places, she just desperately wants it all to not be true and is also surrounded by people who minimize it. She told me recently that “ignorance is bliss”. She would rather risk Long Covid or worse in order to live without having to think of it most of the time.
I will say though, as a sangoma, that it might not be just unrealistic optimism... I’m beginning to thing it’s also despair and surrender. A cynical nihilism of sorts. We’re in the bad place.
I hadn’t considered this. That this attitude might reflect not arrogance but the opposite of arrogance, a surrender to what we perceive as inevitable and a sense that whatever we do won’t matter. Fatalism. What both extremes have in common is a level of certainty about the outcome: either “nothing bad can happen to me” or “no matter what I do I’m done for.”
The old man may have had walking difficulties and simply could not run. In which case, he simply accepted his fate and spent his last moments remembering his life, his family and loved ones, and hoped for the best.
Unfortunately, I think you missed the relationship between Voltaire's satire and optimism. It has little to do individual psychology. Voltaire is responding to Leibnitz' theo-philosophical Optimism that is underpinned by a particular theodicy.